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Of the best mathematicians, how many are upstarts vs. legacies?

  1. Top Mathematician
    lxvo

    Of the best mathematicians, almost none are parent child pairs. The only pairing I know of are the two Cartans. There is a joke floating around about mathematical talent passing to in laws.

    Gauss told his son to get out of mathematics so as to not blemish the family name, causing him to leave for America.

    1 weeklxvo
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  2. Top Mathematician
    gjne

    Of the best mathematicians, almost none are parent child pairs. The only pairing I know of are the two Cartans. There is a joke floating around about mathematical talent passing to in laws.

    JLL and PLL Three generations of Knesers Max and Emmy Noether

    1 weekgjne
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  3. Top Mathematician
    tmgv

    Of the best mathematicians, almost none are parent child pairs. The only pairing I know of are the two Cartans. There is a joke floating around about mathematical talent passing to in laws.

    Gauss told his son to get out of mathematics so as to not blemish the family name, causing him to leave for America.

    Johann/Daniel Bernoulli and Emil/Michael Artin are also quite serious lol

    1 weektmgv
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  4. Top Mathematician
    kxvj

    John Pardon, Will Sawin, Daniel Kane, Daniel Kriz, Maria Monks, and Margaret Bilu are examples of legacies. Their parent(s) are also math professors.

    Zoia Ceaușescu was the ultimate startup or anti-legacies. Her parents were peasant communist dictators who opposed her pursuit of math PhD, even dismantled the math institute she worked in. Zoia had published very well by the standard of her time, getting ~ 300 google scholar citations despite the ages of the papers. Zoia Ceaușescu's Erdős number is 2.

    Having math or physics professor parents is such an enormous advantage in the US. You would know abstract algebra coming in as an undergrad at HYPSMC and not struggle in any math classes. You'd be able to choose any advisor for a senior thesis since they wouldn't assume you're stupid and immediately rule you out.

    1 weekkxvj
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  5. Top Mathematician
    lxvo

    You can fit a planet through the gap between H. Cartan and Max Noether. You have me on the Bernoullis, partly because I can't keep them straight in my head.

    1 weeklxvo
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  6. Top Mathematician
    veqy

    I always cringe when people point out the "miracle" that E. Witten went from being a history major to the leading theoretical physicist. (His father is a theoretical physics professor.)

    1 weekveqy
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  7. Top Mathematician
    gzcx

    Richard Taylor and his father John C Taylor

    en. wikipedia. org/wiki/John_Clayton_Taylor

    1 weekgzcx
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  8. Top Mathematician
    bwdl

    Of the best mathematicians, almost none are parent child pairs.

    Best mathematicians have higher probability of having mathematician parents by several orders of magnitude compared to general population. For the probability of a best/best pair, you should account for child being best in another field --- well advised geniuses may want to avoid mathematics.

    1 weekbwdl
    Quote 2 Up 0 Down Report
  9. Top Mathematician
    bwdd

    Almost all of them are legacies. I can't think of any exceptions in the modern day. This doesn't mean you can never be a great mathematician if you weren't born into privilege, but it does mean you've got your work cut out for you.

    1 weekbwdd
    Quote 3 Up 5 Down Report
  10. Top Mathematician
    bwdl

    Almost all of them are legacies. I can't think of any exceptions in the modern day. This doesn't mean you can never be a great mathematician if you weren't born into privilege, but it does mean you've got your work cut out for you.

    True for women, for men it is more mixed.

    1 weekbwdl
    Quote 3 Up 1 Down Report
  11. Top Mathematician
    bwdl

    peasant communist dictators who opposed her pursuit of math PhD, even dismantled the math institute she worked in.

    As based as it gets.

    1 weekbwdl
    Quote 1 Up 0 Down Report
  12. Top Mathematician
    fmkk

    Almost all of them are legacies. I can't think of any exceptions in the modern day. This doesn't mean you can never be a great mathematician if you weren't born into privilege, but it does mean you've got your work cut out for you.

    You can't think of exceptions in the modern day? I guess you aren't close friends with many great mathematicians (or at least, close enough to know something about their families), which checks out.

    1 weekfmkk
    Quote 0 Up 0 Down Report
  13. Top Mathematician
    bwdl

    You can't think of exceptions in the modern day?

    The phrasing of the OP unrealistically treats legacy/nonlegacy as a binary dichotomy. If you created a scale of how academic, mathematical and high-IQ the ancestors are, it would be hard to dispute that the people with an objective claim to labels like "best" and "great" tend to come from severely enriched backgrounds. Just not always from a clan of professors --- though even that happens surprisingly often.

    1 weekbwdl
    Quote 3 Up 0 Down Report
  14. Top Mathematician
    zpqw

    You can't think of exceptions in the modern day?

    The phrasing of the OP unrealistically treats legacy/nonlegacy as a binary dichotomy. If you created a scale of how academic, mathematical and high-IQ the ancestors are, it would be hard to dispute that the people with an objective claim to labels like "best" and "great" tend to come from severely enriched backgrounds. Just not always from a clan of professors --- though even that happens surprisingly often.

    This is speculation. What precise studies are you drawing an analogy to?

    1 weekzpqw
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  15. Top Mathematician
    bwdl
    [...]

    The phrasing of the OP unrealistically treats legacy/nonlegacy as a binary dichotomy. If you created a scale of how academic, mathematical and high-IQ the ancestors are, it would be hard to dispute that the people with an objective claim to labels like "best" and "great" tend to come from severely enriched backgrounds. Just not always from a clan of professors --- though even that happens surprisingly often.

    This is speculation. What precise studies are you drawing an analogy to?

    Read FM bios and count it for yourself. It holds also for math contest wunderkinder and pretty much anything where there is an extremely high level of cognitive selection.

    1 weekbwdl
    Quote 2 Up 0 Down Report
  16. Top Mathematician
    lxvo

    You'll never get a scientific answer to this question or anything like it in our lifetimes, because no competent sociologist is dumb enough politically to touch it.

    1 weeklxvo
    Quote 2 Up 0 Down Report
  17. Top Mathematician
    mpjm

    thread going to get derailed again with race stuff. nobody cares, chuds. go somewhere else to talk about this nonsense.

    1 weekmpjm
    Quote 2 Up 3 Down Report
  18. Top Mathematician
    bwdl

    thread going to get derailed again with race stuff. nobody cares, chuds. go somewhere else to talk about this nonsense.

    What race stuff? This is all within-race (and also within-sex if you wish) phenomena. The Field medalists are not very diverse after all.

    1 weekbwdl
    Quote 3 Up 1 Down Report
  19. Top Mathematician
    uaaq

    What about lemons in the family? Not all Bernoulli's were top shelf, not all Bach's were JS or PDQ level.

    1 weekuaaq
    Quote 0 Up 0 Down Report
  20. Top Mathematician
    bwdl

    What about lemons in the family? Not all Bernoulli's were top shelf, not all Bach's were JS or PDQ level.

    Not all of Bach, Bernoulli, and Euler's children were lemons.

    1 weekbwdl
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